David Hast: Scott, have you seen Duck Soup?
Scott Vander Werf: I have seen Duck Soup so many times.I saw it recently. I saw it about 10 years ago. I got the DVD from the library and revisited it. And it's definitely one of my favorite films from the Marx Brothers. And, what a classic.
DH: Yes, the Marx Brothers. The people of our generation, they were one of the great movie comedy teams, Groucho, Harpo, and Chico. They probably seem pretty old to a lot of younger people now and who may not even know about them. But, you know, the Marx brothers had this crazy physical comedy, nonstop jokes, puns, you know, all kinds of...they made fun of everything.
SVW: And they came out of Vaudeville. So, the whole Vaudeville environment of performance was really the foundation of their comedy.
DH: And that's you see in the movies. mean, a lot of in a lot of their movies, particularly the early ones, it's just it's like a lockdown camera shot wide like a stage. And you're seeing the three Marx brothers, two or three of them doing funny stuff. And yeah, so they were a Vaudeville stage act. They then went on and did turn their vaudeville into like stage plays. So they'd be they'd be kind of comedies with a little music and they were were actually on Broadway. And those plays then were adapted to movies and that's how their movie career started for certainly for their first five movies which were all in the early sound era and all in the pre-code era all at Paramount Studios which at that time was not making big budget movies and the last and widely considered the best of those was Duck Soup.
SVW: And you've got Groucho who's the con man, the womanizer, the punster. And he was really the superstar and he went on to have a TV program in the 50s called You Bet Your Life that we remember in reruns in the 60s and 70s.
DH: Yeah, Groucho for people of our generation, was this guy, he was no longer making movies or anything like that. But you just knew…we saw his old movies and you knew he was this important comedian when he was, and he'd be a guest on other TV shows and stuff. Just like, I don't know, for people now who weren't there then, but they know about the original Saturday Night Live they know about you know, Bill Murray and Chevy Chase and people like that You know, he had that sort of role When you and I were young
SVW: And then Chico is the troublemaker He has a fake Italian accent and then Harpo is the id, Harpo is silent. In fact, I don't know of any scenes at all where he ever spoke, do you?
DH: I don't think so. I don't know a lot about all the Marx Brothers movies. There might be some famous scene where he something comes out a note of being song or something…he's always silent.
SVW: All three of them are very physical, but he's the most physical. He's the one that is the most acrobatic and does the most unusual things with his physical body.
DH: I like that you said he's like the id because he does the most, you know, he just the most anarchic. He's always got a pair of scissors and he's constantly cutting things off: people's ties, people's beards. His name is Harpo because he plays the harp, they were very talented. They were all musicians and Harpo and Chico both played the piano incredibly well, but Harpo also played the harp.
SVW: And you mentioned the scissors, but he has multiple things, many things that he has in his pockets of his baggy pants. He's always pulling out things like blow torches to light cigars or cigarettes and alarm clocks and things that are in his pants.
DH: Yeah, in Duck Doup when he pulls out this fiery propane torch to light people's cigars. Yeah, he can pull out whatever is necessary from that coat long coat to fit the scene and Chico, you know, some people might say oh, that's like a racist parody of Italian Americans, but it was really done in good humor and he certainly was done. I don't think it comes across that way. He just has this terrible fake Italian accent.
SVW: And then also there's Zeppo who with this in Duck Soup was the last film that he was in. He was the fourth brother who was a straight man.
DH: Right. There were actually five Marx brothers. One was named Gummo. I these weren't their real names. They were their stage names obviously. But Gummo was like a business manager or something. He was never in any of their shows. Zeppo played the straight man just for the five first five films through Duck Soup and then he retired. He was like, I'm sick of just doing this stupid role. That's all about you guys. There's an actress who's in seven of their movies who plays the straight woman, Margaret Dumont.
SVW: In fact, you can't for myself, I can't even think about a Marx Brothers movie without her being in it.
DH: Yeah, I mean, Margaret Dumont is great.She and she's sort of in on the joke, but she's the perfect foil for Groucho.
SVW: She's a very large woman. She's very tall, very voluptuous, and she's stately. She's like a matron and she's she's always above everything that they're doing, even as they torment her.
DH: Yeah. So Duck Soup is is as I think we already said, widely regarded by critics as probably their greatest movie. It may not be as accessible as some later ones, but the story is paper thin, but all it is is the movie is set in the fictional country of Fredonia where the government is only able to exist because the wealthy Mrs. Teasdale keeps loaning it money and that's Margaret Dumont, right, this sort of Society lady so she says you guys aren't managing the government right she insists that her friend and we have no idea how they know each other it's right in the opening scene she's like I want my friend Rufus T Firefly to be made the president. So they have to agree, and that's Groucho, of course, and then he proceeds to disregard all civilized behavior, make a mockery of everything that the official stuffed shirts who running the country care about, and just sort of anarchy descends on Fredonia. And then the little plot is that the ambassador from the rival nation of Sylvania, sends out two spies, played by Chico and Harpo, Chico Lini and Pinky, and they're supposed to figure out what Firefly is up to, and then eventually the two countries go to war.
SVW: And you say figure out what he's up to. Well, he's just up to his own anarchy, that he's comedic anarchy, and they themselves are up to their comedic anarchy.
DH: Right. He just wants to chase girls and find out ways to get money. And he's always romancing Margaret Dumont in every movie, even though you're supposed to assume he's not really that attracted to her because he's just trying to get money from her.
SVW: Then the same for the two spies are basically,especially Harpo is chasing after women as well.
DH: So, I mean, what's the best way to describe the sort of anti-establishment anarchy that goes on and disrespect from maybe I just said it, you know, it's just crazy physical humor and jokes and also really fast dialogue monologue stuff from Groucho and Chico with all these endless puns.
SVW: And in terms of their the way that their comedic style is in terms of this loose plot and in terms of Groucho as the leader of the country he he'll, in this space of like 10-20 seconds he'll say one thing then contradict it, then contradict that and then contradict it again. And this is all about state policy.
DH: Yes.Just like real politicians. The greatest and then in a way, Duck Soup is just an excuse to do a bunch of set pieces, right? The plot doesn't matter that much. Some of the really famous ones, my favorite one is the one in the mirror with the
SVW: Yes, very iconic
DH: At one point, both Chico and Harpo dress up just like Groucho. So all three of them look identical. And then they're doing this scene that they're acting two of them are facing each other and they're I guess they're trying not to give away who they are so they both pretend it's a mirror.
SVW: Well, there's a mirror that gets broken, Harpo breaks the mirror and it's kind of interesting because it's a mirror that is also a portal to the next room. It's kind of interesting that it's not just a mirror against a wall it's almost like it's a mirror that's been erected in a doorway because it's in the shape of a door, but of course, that's just an excuse for the routine, for the gag.And that's like a lot of the movie where it's just, like you said, it's one series of skits or comedic…an opportunity to do a gag. That's where at first it's Harpo imitating Groucho, but also Groucho, again, fairly quickly into the routine, you kind of figure out that Groucho knows what's going on and then they just play it out and then eventually Chico joins in too. So then there's three there's three Grouchos that are ambulating across the mirror.
DH: I want to I want to mention another movie. You've probably seen at some point you've seen Night at the Opera, right?
SVW: That is correct. I haven't seen that in many years - or Day at the Races which followed this is the 1935 for the Night at the Opera and 1937 a Day at the Races.
Yeah, and Duck Soup is 33. The reason I bring it up is, you know, think the Marx brothers are, and why we're talking about them, they're incredibly influential. They influenced whole generations of comedians and they influenced comedy in the movies. But I'm afraid to say that I think a lot of younger people who, they watch this now, would find it kind of silly.It's like, oh, it's a bunch of dad jokes and it's not that funny. And I think that's Duck Soup, although the American Film Institute ranked it fifth out of the top hundred comedies of all time because of its amazing sort of comic anarchy.It doesn't play well as like just like a movie with the expectations we have for a movie with a plot and all that. And as we mentioned earlier, it was the last of their five movies for Paramount, all pre-code, and then they went to MGM and the great producer Arthur Irving Thalberg said, “I'm going to create a bigger budget. We're going to use all the MGM glitz for production numbers and create a story where the viewers actually care about some of the characters, not the Marx brothers, but the other characters.” And I think those would be more accessible now. And the Marx brothers, even then, those were their two biggest box office successes. When they did Night at the Opera and A Day at the Races for MGM, all of a sudden they were hugely popular as movies. And it's because in that movie, you actually have a plot where you have these two young opera singers who are in love with each other, but then there's their rivals, like the top tenor who just wants to take advantage of her and the owner of the opera company.So what they do is, now the Marx Brothers' hijinks and their anarchy is directed at the characters you don't like and they're helping the characters you do like.
SVW: Whereas in Duck Soup and the films that preceded it, everybody is a victim of the Marx Brothers humor.
DH: Exactly. They're just sort of lashing out at the world in a humorous way. So I would recommend, if you're only going to watch one Marx Brothers movie, unless you just like really crazy stuff, I'd say watch Night at the Opera. Watch that one first and then watch Duck Soup would be my recommendation.
SVW: One thing about Duck Soup is that it's only 69 minutes long. An hour and nine minutes of just there's no fat in the movie. It just starts and then it ends. It begins and throughout has major musical numbers that are also part of the humor. And that's pretty much in most of the Marx Brothers films.There's a lot of music involved as well.
DH: Yes, funny music. In Night at the Opera they actually have some serious opera, but just for a few minutes. So the Marx brothers, I can't recommend them enough for just to get a good slice of a great period of comedy in Hollywood.
SVW: Well, thanks for joining us.
DH: Thanks, Scott.
