Joe Bielecki: I like to start out by defining terms, and I think it would be a good place to start with kind of differentiating a tenant's union from a labor union. I think a lot more people are probably familiar with labor unions, where a bunch of employees get together, and they collectively bargain for better pay, kinder hours, safety, et cetera. Obviously tenants might all be living in the same building or same complex or whatever, but they're not employees. So what makes a tenants union different from a labor union?
Grace Cole: Yeah, that's a great question. with a tenant union, like you said, it might be people who are in the same building, have the same landlord or property management company, but they probably have some shared experiences which have caused them to want to organize similarly to a labor union. The one thing with labor unions is that we have national labor laws, whereas we only have locally, we have some housing law that's national, but most of it is state by state and city by city. So there's a lot less protections nationally for tenants. So tenants get to organize on the things that specifically concern them, be it, pest issues, it refusal to do repairs, be it really high raises in rent after every lease period. Those are the things that we're going to see tenants organizing around, rather than employees who are organizing around the issues that you mentioned.
JB: Okay. So within Grand Rapids, how are things for tenants?
GC: You know, that is a mixed question. We thankfully do have some better protections than other cities. Recently something in the city of Grand Rapids was passed where if you submit an application fee you can get that refunded if you do not get the unit and it's already been leased when you already viewed it and paid for that you know application. So that's been something really great because application fees can be $50 that's not a small amount of money. We do see like many parts of the country a significant issue with affordability. There, we're just seeing, recently I saw something put out that, know, Michiganders have to make $25 an hour to, you know, afford housing. That's a real issue. But with rising prices, we don't always see rising quality of conditions. We are still seeing chronic issues with cockroaches, with mold and people getting sick from mold, with basic repairs like roofing, like ceilings caving in, that aren't being caught and aren't being enforced to the fullest extent because sometimes it's cheaper to pay a fine than it is to make the repair. So part of what we do at Grand Rapids Area Tenant Union is help the tenant make them feel like they're not alone in this and tell the landlord, hey, you have to do this. This is what is required of you. And we're going to be behind the tenant in those demands.
JB: Okay. So it seems like organizers at the Grand Rapids Area Tenants Union probably have a pretty good handle on the law, whereas just your average renter might not, even maybe your average landlord might not.
GC: Yeah, absolutely. So we're all tenants ourselves or allies to tenants. None of us are lawyers, to be clear. So when people reach out to us, we make clear we are not providing legal advice. We are not your lawyer. But we do have our own experiences and we do do a lot of research. So we have our understandings of people's rental rights. I know pretty well the property maintenance code that the city of Grand Rapids uses. It's very dense, but it's helpful to know. So we give our tenants that reach out to us answers to those things like, hey, what does eviction look like in the city of Grand Rapids? What is that process? If someone gives me a notice that they're going to evict me, does that mean I have to move out today? Answer, no, it doesn't unless there's very specific circumstances. But that is something that we really work hard on providing. And you're right, some landlords don't even know the law and when they're informed of it, they're surprised that they have to follow certain rules. So that's a big part of what we work on is just educating people about what do you actually have rights about? Cause a lot of people are surprised that you have a lot more rights than you think you do.
JB: Perhaps in maybe less dire terms, can you help people know like what kinds of home repairs they can do? That sort of thing. I see people on Instagram all the time who like their brand is "Here's things you can do to make your home pretty if you rent it".
GC: Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. The thing is, it's going to be case by case with landlords. A lot of time, as I'm sure many people who are listening will have experienced, landlords will try to keep as much of the security deposit as possible. They'll say, oh, this one command strip that didn't come off is $250. So we always recommend checking with your lease because it often does specify what is expected of the condition of the home to be at after you move out and how much will then be returned through the security deposits. You also can reach out to us and ask those questions as well. Minor things like spackling, filling in holes is always a good way to try to get back that security deposit. But if you ever have a question about, oh, this definitely should not have been held. I should have gotten this back. Reach out to us or there's ways that you can just advocate for yourself as well and say, you build this as being $150 to, you know, clean the oven. Well, I've cleaned my oven. I know that doesn't cost $150. So, and just basically communicating with the landlord that can be a really easy and quick step and landlords will sometimes back down.
JB: And you mentioned tenants and allies to tenants. So if someone owns their home but remembers what it's like to rent, there's ways to get involved too.
GC: Yeah, absolutely. So you don't have to be a tenant to organize with us. It's just people that are passionate about tenants having rights and having good living conditions in the city of Grand Rapids and around the city of Grand Rapids. So we have homeowners that organize with us, but they know what it was like to have, you know, bad housing conditions, whether it be in college or after. And really all we ask is that you're in it for the tenants and you're here to help. That can look like a few things. It can look like canvassing different, you know, apartment buildings or property management companies properties. It can look like helping us with outreach, doing social media. It can help us researching, you know, looking into like what a law looks like and its legal precedents. Those are a few ways that we kind of all work together
JB: Cool. So if somebody wants to get involved, what is the best way to do so?
GC: Oh great question You can reach out to our email which is gratunion@gmail.com again, that's gratunion@gmail.com We're also on Instagram and Facebook, but email is the best way to contact us We do have a public meeting that will be on August 14th at 6 p.m. At Garfield Park. We have a big sign that says Tenant Union Meeting here. So you will see excited faces. And we do have our public meetings every second Thursday at Garfield Park at 6 p.m. So if you're interested in getting involved or if you want to unionize your building, your multifamily house, if you want to get involved either volunteering or getting help, please feel free to reach out to us.
JB: Awesome. Grace, thank you.
GC: Yeah, thank you so much.
