Jim Blanchard: Well, we believe in defending democracy and our major goal is to push back on anyone who suggests that elections in Michigan are rigged or not accurate or not fair. We are both parties. We span decades of experience and we're here to say that elections in Michigan are well run, they're fair, they're accurate. They're, by the way, managed by over 1,500 local city and township clerks, staffed by thousands of volunteers, and our system should be respected. And just because somebody loses an election and cries foul, they're not to be believed.
Patrick Center: It's only rigged when you lose, right?
Jim Blanchard: Well, that's what I…yeah, but we have a lot of people who go out and question the election, even though they won under the election.So, it’s goofy stuff when somebody votes against certifying an election, when they indeed were elected on the same ballot. So, we want everyone to respect our electoral process here in our city and township clerks and our county clerks and you know and all the volunteers who staff elections. We do.
I will say that polls show overwhelmingly people agree with what I'm saying.But there's a small minority that stirs up trouble, tries to run for office on conspiracies and you know we just think that's a disservice to our state, our democracy and our country, especially during our 250th anniversary.
We want to build even greater trust because we always say trust is the coin of the realm. We want to expand that, but our group in a bipartisan way is underscoring the importance of how well one run, how accurate and how well managed our elections are.
And you do have a small minority that screams and yells and they're election deniers, they’re a lot of things, you know, they could be vaccination deniers, election deniers. They're into conspiracies. Data centers, there's a lot of conspiracies about those things too.I'm not an expert on them, but anytime you have rapid change though, I think, people feel left out or they are not sure who to believe. That's the thing, they're not sure who to believe.And so sometimes they believe conspiracies when they don't exist.People are in silos more now than ever before. Now a lot of that's social media.So has its benefits, but it has its shortcomings.And social media, half of it's not true.The other half is true, but how do you sort out which is which?
The other thing that we forget often, governors, former governors, congressmen, not everybody's sitting around worrying about politics. They have lives to lead, families to feed, golf rounds to play, whatever it is. They're not sitting around thinking all this through. So, they have a harder time sorting out what's true and what's not true, what's positive and what is doable. They're busy with their lives.
Patrick Center: And yet there are people who believe this stuff and they go out and they vote.
Jim Blanchard: Sure, yeah, they're in the minority, but yes, they do. And that's why we exist, to underscore the importance and faith in our voting system here in Michigan.
Patrick Center: How are you getting the word out?
Jim Blanchard: This event helps. know, everyone here is, in their own respects, is an opinion leader. We have several hundred people here who get around.They're not all just businesspeople either. They’re people who work with nonprofits, civic organizations. So yeah, you have to get to the leadership class and make sure they know that we’re on their side. When I say leadership, I mean community leaders. I don't mean necessarily politicians. That includes churches, schools, everywhere.
And I mention here to the group that one thing they can do is encourage their kids, if they have a middle school or high schooler, to follow local politics. Find a candidate they follow and learn about how things work. Because it's probably not, it won't be as ideological or usually as polarized as you see in Washington. And it will give people good experience in helping build a better community.
Patrick Center: Former Governor Jim Blanchard, thank you so much for your time.Now joining us is former Republican Michigan Governor John Engler. You have seen it all, back from when you were in politics. What are the similarities and what has changed over time?
John Engler: Well, you still have to get elected to serve. That's not changed.How you get elected today is seemingly very different. How much money is being spent in these campaigns and the other big, big, big change is social media. Because today there's so much divisiveness and polarization and a very significant amount that's driven by what I'd say is social media where you can launch attacks 24-7 if you wish and it doesn't have to be truthful. There's no vetting for truth. So, things get said out there and tribes talk to other tribe members and finding common ground is really a challenge.
Patrick Center: How do you bridge the gap? How do we break through this partisan divide?
John Engler: Well, there are those who do get elected who have that desire to bridge that divide and they have to be the leader and they've got to be finding leadership roles. Maybe it's not the top leader initially but maybe it's a committee, maybe it's an issue that they lead a task force on, and they go out and build a consensus because consensus can still be built.
Now consensus should not be confused with unanimity. I don't know that unanimity was possible in the past, I certainly don't think it is today, but consensus means that we've got a general meeting of the minds. We're going to be able to work out and not have a situation where somebody wins everything and everybody else loses everything. That's not a solution. That's not a formula for success.
Patrick Center: The fringes seem to captain the ship. The middle is the area where I believe you feel needs to expand its power.
John Engler: Well, I think the people in your world think these fringes are wonderful news stories. I mean, some are completely kooky and crazy. Some are just so far out there, but you're seeing and hearing things from them that in the past nobody would have said out loud. So, what great coverage that is. But does it help educate? Does it help bring anything to the finish line?Mostly no. Mostly it's just raw meat for the, again, the tribes. And what we want to get away from is the idea that we're doing this for one particular point of view instead, what does the community need?
The community needs good schools. They need children who leave those schools who can read, who can do math and compute. They need jobs in the community and employers want to hire people who've got some skills. They really can't hire people or use people who can't read, can't read a safety warning, can't read the instructions. They really can't use people who don't have a work ethic who will show up, come to work. The old Woody Allen line, 80% of success is showing up. Well, there's some issues with that today. So. all of these sort of traits of, I guess, they're a part of culture, but they're part of an attitude too. And we've got to work on that.
Patrick Center: Education is critical in your mind. For the electorate what is your advice for the upcoming midterm? And then again, in 2028?
John Engler: Well, I mean, a few years ago we recognized in Lansing, I was long gone, but the test scores had started dropping and they've dropped almost consistently since I left office.It's frightening and in the last eight, ten years we've just seen a decline that's shocking in terms of our proficiency and our success in schools. So, what are we going to do to get back to that? We had a third grade reading requirement. The results were so disastrous they repealed it. That doesn't exactly fix the problem if you repeal the consequences for failing. So, that to me is get back to accountability and for heaven's sake to anybody that's listening to this, call up to the school and ask how many of our third graders are proficient in reading and if they're not, why not? And if they're not, what are we doing about it?
Patrick Center: Governor John Engler, thank you so much.
John Engler: Thank you. You're welcome.