John: My name is John. I'm 70 years old. I'm from Grand Haven.
Teresa: Hi, my name is Teresa. I am 62 years old. I am from Grand Haven, Michigan. I grew up over by Lansing in Charlotte on a dirt road in farmland country surrounded by corn fields and soybeans with an old farmer across the street. I used to love to go watch him milk his cows.
My parents were very young. They were 17, 18 years old when I was born and my grandparents lived about five miles down the road and I used to ride my bike there.
John: Yeah, I grew up here in Grand Haven, although I was the kid that couldn't get out of Dodge fast enough. So, I kind of grew up in Pennsylvania a little bit. We had some family friends that I would always go visit. And then I spent quite a few years out West, college years, but mostly here in Grand Haven. My father was a dentist. My mother was a preacher's kid that helped shape a lot of my ideals and thoughts.
Teresa: How old was your oldest patient? What do you remember about them?
John: I think she's 102. She's a hoot. She can probably arm wrestle both of us at the same time still win. How did you end up in Grand Haven?
Teresa: I wanted to get out of Charlotte. My soul said, this isn't it. I went to college up at Lake Superior State University and I knew I wasn't going to go back to Charlotte after I graduated from college. So, I moved to South Carolina. I moved to Chicago. Washington state. I had a few kids by then and we wanted to move back to Michigan because you find that nobody is going to unconditionally love your children like family does. And so, living in Washington state, there was no family around. So, if I was sick and my husband was working, like there's nobody to catch you. There's no safety net like grandparents and sisters and aunts and uncles and cousins. So, when you look at the map of Michigan and you think where would you want to live? My dad had a charter fishing boat in Ludington. So anywhere along Lake Michigan, it's the Gold Coast in my mind.
John: Like I said, I was the kid that couldn't wait to get out of Grand Haven when I was in high school. I did come back, and I did take over my dad's practice. It was almost a fluke in a lot of ways, but it's worked out really well. I'm glad I'm here. I miss the Rockies, but I can hopefully travel out there and spend some time.
Teresa: Yeah, I get that. I loved living in Washington state and Chicago, South Carolina. There's something about living in other places, experiencing other cultures, even though the United States is all one country.
John: And living in some of the different cultures kind of gave me a respect and a desire to come back here.
Teresa: Can you tell me about someone who has been the kindest to you in your life?
John: There's been three people, if you want to say influencers, I guess. My dad always believed in all of us and was always on our side and very helpful. I get a little choked up, I had a gymnastics coach in high school who believed in me more than I did myself. And I always go back to Bill Louiselle, just a very kind man who, you know, I'd fall off some apparatus, he’d say John, get up there and do it again. It taught me to keep trying. And he did believe in me, especially, you know, when you're in the teenage years, you know, it was horrible, but he did.
And then when I quit college, I got on my bicycle and rode out to Montana. And I was interested in learning about dentistry because dad was a dentist and I thought, well, I want to learn about it. And this dental lab technician picked me up out of nowhere and gave me his heart and his mind and his soul and taught me so much. I've always appreciated Mike Hockel in Bozeman, Montana who was just so kind to me. Here I am a kid on a bicycle, and he gave me a job. Mike was a big influence on me.
Teresa: My grandfather was just so kind and gentle. He was a kind, gentle soul. But I was a 12-year-old girl, and he put me on a motorcycle, which looking back, I wasn't a boy. I was a girl, you know? And yeah, he put me on this Honda 100, taught me how to ride. And then took me camping with him and his buddies up into Harrison, into the Michigan forest where, yeah, we even the hole he dug in the ground. And it was just so cool to not be put in the box of the feminine at that age was amazing in that time period in the sixties and early seventies. You know, looking back, that was very kind of him because I didn't have to stay in a dress and be a girl.
And my dad, I'm pretty anti-gun. He was a hunter, and he taught me how to shoot a gun and a bow and arrow. Same thing, you know, in that timeframe to not put me in the box of a girl with a bow and a dress. It's probably why I do my self-help work stuff around listening to my feminine voice because I've had all these male figures saying, hey!
John: Could you describe your personal political values?
Teresa: In the general terms, I lean more liberal, even though I voted both ways. In my lifetime, I would say I lean more in the middle in the way I move in the world, but the way I vote has been both directions. But I definitely go on the more liberal side when it comes to healthcare and immigration. I have three adopted kids and there is so much inequity in how healthcare is delivered and that's so much of my week. I spend so much time taking care of people. So, I see so much disparities in how people live in our economy and there's so much unfairness in distribution of wealth based on gender, based on color of skin that starts from the time somebody is before they're even born that sets them at a disadvantage for their entire life.
And I see it.
I know politics is a huge factor in that, but there's also social predispositions that cultural in America that also affect that. It's not a ‘one thing.’ It's this huge puzzle of things that affect all of that. So, I don't know that it's all political in my own words, but it certainly seems to be that way if you only watch TV and media and politicians. How about you?
John: Well, I'm going to say a dirty word. Honesty. There is no honesty. And that would be my big political value that I would cherish is somebody really just being honest and straightforward, not propagating lies and misnomers and fallacies and made-up things or hiding the truth. And that bothers me more than anything because it just doesn't seem like anybody's truthful, honest, straightforward. There's always a sound bite. There's always a motive. We may never know what that motive is.
The dark money side of things has changed things. The fact that corporations are people, they can donate unspecified amount of money to politicians. I think that's corrupted our society, our system. So, honesty to me is the thing that's lacking that I think is the most important myself.
Teresa: Is there someone you disagree with politically but still respect? Describe them to me. I do have someone. It's the guy I date. Extremely on the opposite end. And I practically kicked him out of my house the last election and I'm surprised we're still dating.
John: (Laughing)
Teresa: Every time he talks about anything political, it gets pretty heated. So generally, he's pretty quiet if anything does come up. Yet, we share the same values. It's insane to me.
John: (Laughing)
Teresa: Insane.
John: You're probably doing something I couldn't do, honestly.
Teresa: Yeah.
John: If Cindy and I were on different ends, it would be very difficult.
Teresa: I don't think this relationship will last.
John: Are you saying opposites attract here or what?
Teresa: No, no, I'm, I'm tolerant. It's what I'm saying. But I'm kind of weary of being tolerant. It is very difficult. He is respectful of my views and I'm… It is hard though. I can respect the fact that he's respectful of my views, but there are things like he fixes cars for people all the time. And he was fixing somebody's car, couldn't afford to have her car fixed. It was somebody's granddaughter's car. And he noticed a child carrier seat in the back seat and her tires were bald too. And he went to the junkyard, and he bought four new tires and put them on the car. Like, his heart is so good. Who does that? I don't know anybody who does that. Just out of the goodness of his heart. I respect so many of the things he does and the way he moves in the world, you know? If you could talk to your younger version of yourself, what would you say?
John: Trust your instincts. Just trust yourself. If you feel you think something's going on, most likely you're correct.
Teresa: Exactly. Too many teenagers walking around who are adults who don't know the way to move in the world as an elder. Who can't hear their own voice, who aren't listening to their instincts, who aren't moving in the world the way that they were made to move. Listen to your own voice, hear your own voice, pay attention.