Ryan: My name is Ryan. I'm 68 years old. I'm from Grand Haven, Michigan.
Winnie: And hi back at you. My name is Winnie. I'm 72 years old. I am from the Grand Rapids area. I grew up in a number of different places, mostly in the Midwest. My dad became a minister, Baptist, when I was in high school. We were dubbed preacher's kids, but my mom asserted that we were her kids, and we'd better toe the line. We didn’t get into the hijinks that a lot of preacher's kids do. I went to college in Kalamazoo and then decided after working in an emergency room for a year that I wanted to go to medical school and did that at Wayne State University. Came back to Grand Rapids for residency and we've just stayed here.
Ryan: I'm from Traverse City but my father's territory was moved to Oberlin. My mother selected the community of Oberlin, Ohio, because it had a Quaker meeting there. And she had gone from Methodist to being a Quaker. I went to school at Miami University where I met Karen and we've been married for 44 years. And then we both like Michigan. Karen used to work here, and I used to vacation here. So, we moved back to Grand Haven.
Winnie: I have very high regard for the Quakers, but I wasn't sure how financially conservative matched with Quaker progressive?
Ryan: My folks lived through the depression, so I knew the value that they placed on resources and how to be effective and efficient. So, I don't think there's enough money to go around, despite I know federal policy can sometimes reduce money. It just seems prudent to use all resources wisely, whether it's land, forests, or financial resources. So that's why I'm fiscally conservative. I also think, at least in my career, it enabled us to do more with, seemed like, increasingly shrinking resources in local government, not so much in federal, of course. And just as an example, we did a gang reduction program in one community, and we were able to do that mainly through private resources. So, by thinking differently about money, being conservative about money, you can also involve more parties rather than just the taxpayer. Could you briefly describe in your own words, your personal political values?
Winnie: Oh, okay. I'm an independent. I do not subscribe to either party. I think both parties could stand a lot of reforming. I'm just not very happy with the whole United States political system. I think we need to focus on justice and getting along and not arguing over who's going to win what.
Ryan: Well, I thought we were going to be a little different. But I'd have to say ditto. So, during George Floyd, just to underscore that point, Karen and I participated in several demonstrations, whatever they were called. And the sign I made said ‘empathy.’ That's the root cause of many of these problems is our people not taking the energy of time to try to respect that everyone walks in different shoes and understanding, you know, how they came to think or believe the way they did. So, my personal political values, that's learned behavior from more of my mother than anybody. But yeah, I couldn't agree more with what you said. Structurally, there's some issues with our political system that are arcane, treating everything like a football or a sports contest, especially the language that's used and the way that clickbait expands and makes it worse. Not to mention external countries now participating. I do fear for how to get our language and our understandings and listening back to what it might've been at one time. Not quite sure it was that way at one time, but I'd like to make it so.
Winnie: I totally agree. We've gone from trying to get things done with the government to the parties trying to win, as you said.
Ryan: I can recall thinking when I was beginning to vote, a sense of, yeah, I prefer one marginally in terms of president, but I wasn't upset if the other one. And I wish we could get back to that.
Winnie: Yeah, me too. It's become exceedingly divisive and that's the part that I think is the most troubling. People have gotten to the point where they just, if you're different, you're the enemy. And that is so ridiculous in my mind. As you said, we don't even stop to think about where they're coming from. It's not a win or lose. It's how do we advance this country, morally as well as technologically?
Ryan: That leads into the next question, Winnie, how does faith or religion guide your political values?
Winnie: I am a Baha'i. I became one in college, which was not viewed very well by my family, but they didn't throw me out of the house or anything. Baha'is believe that parties are inherently divisive, and we should not belong to either one of them. The whole message is unity, and it goes beyond that to unity in diversity. So, we appreciate all sorts of ages, genders, backgrounds, skin color, language. They're all human. And that's been our focus. So yes, it does guide my political values greatly. How about you, sir?
Ryan: I could easily be a Baha'i. I was raised a Quaker. I don't actually practice strict Quakerism anymore. The spiritual community we belong to is non-denominational and mixes in Buddhism with Greek mythology, with Judaism, with Christianity, you name it, it's been spoken of. We wish we had a more diverse group that came together every week, but you can't force something, especially in West Michigan. But being spiritual, Karen and I like to say that we are without religious dogma, I think it enables us to act and think in ways that at least we feel better about ourselves.
Winnie: Wow. No, we're not very different at all. Our community isn't quite as diverse as we would like it either, but I've traveled quite a bit and met Baha'is in other countries. And that's always a wonderful thing to do to see how other people fit that in with, with their lifestyle. My husband is Middle Eastern. So that has opened a few diversity channels as well.
Ryan: Just a quick. There is racism and anyone who used to say, especially during eight years ago that, you know, there's, is not a racist country. Balonga.
Winnie: Bologna is right.
Ryan: My eyes have been open to it. I don't know it all, but I have fought it in my governmental spheres. Just a short snippet in Holland when they hired people, there was some scuttlebutt that people would say, Oh, you know, who's going to be hired. It's someone who's brown or black. And that got back to me third hand. And it's like, Holy cow. And that wasn't the case at all. We took our applications, and we blacked out before I saw them, before the department had saw them, addresses and last names, which would suggest something. And then we tried to have a hiring team that was diverse, men, women, and Hispanic and black. Hispanic is a third of the community. So, we could have a better chance of having the community represented in City Hall. But that comment that got back to me was clearly generated from a racist point of view.
Winnie: Oh, I totally agree. I was just reading an article before we started about what can white people do to help fight racism. The article basically said, talk about it. Talk about, you know, what happens. And I agree with you. There's a great amount of racist sentiment, even if people aren't aware of it.
Ryan: Winnie, what's something that you will take with you from this One Small Step conversation experience?
Winnie: Oh, that I found a kindred soul. Yeah, I like to believe that a lot of people feel the way you and I do about many things, depending on their upbringing, of course. But I really have enjoyed this and appreciated it. And it's heartwarming to know that I'm not the crazy person on a soapbox out on the corner, that there's more folks who believe the same way. And what about you?
Ryan: I think if we were in a restaurant and we sat down at any table, you know, I think some of our conversations with people could be more similar to what we've just had than one might think. And so that is encouraging. And what you just said reiterates that. So, let's carry on, right?
Winnie: And encourage people to talk to someone that they wouldn't otherwise. That's the small individual things that we can do to help make the world better is to encourage people to learn about other types of folks.
Ryan: Exactly. Education never stops.