Kathleen: Hi, my name is Kathleen. 72 years old. I am from Battle Creek.
Jackie: Hi, my name is Jackie and I'm 53 years old. I'm from Mount Pleasant, Michigan.
Kathleen: So, Jackie, who has been the most influential person in your life and what did they teach you?
Jackie: It's an easy one. It's my sister Jill. I was born on Jill's ninth birthday. We became steadfast best friends. She died when I was 36 years old of cancer. She was the Girl Scout. Camp coordinator for Camp Marywood. She taught me to love each other and just live life moment by moment and find joy in everything. I try to do that. Kathleen, who was the most influential person in your life?
Kathleen: My dad was the most influential and what he taught me was to be kind and to listen. I don't always do either one of them very well sometimes. However, I work hard at it all of the time, trying to listen. My dad was just always very kind, a very gentle man. He was a commercial artist. He just was a good person all of the time. I can't remember the author's name now, but it was a gentleman who used to always write about love and kindness.
Jackie: Leo Buscaglia?
Kathleen: Yes. And my dad saw him in person two or three different times. I have read all the books that my dad had.
Jackie: What do you think made your dad so kind?
Kathleen: I think he was the opposite of his father. My grandma and grandpa were immigrants from Poland. When my grandfather was 25 or 26, when he came to the United States, my grandmother was 19. They had married in Poland before they came. And my grandpa was not ever very nice to my dad. I think my dad took more after his mom. It was a hard time being Polish back then.
Jackie: Sounds like he was incredibly resilient.
Kathleen: He was. Your sister Jill died when you were 36.
Jackie: My brother Matt died in 2016. Really healthy young lawyer in Plainwell. He just had an undiagnosed heart condition and he left a couple small kids and a wife behind. And then my mom and dad are gone.
Kathleen: And how old were you when your parents died?
Jackie: I was 40 when my dad died and 50 when my mom died. You mention that you don't always agree with the Catholic Church?
Kathleen: Probably the biggest thing for me is the Catholic Church's stance on gay and lesbians. I have a brother who is gay. I have two sister-in-laws who are married to one another who are lesbians. And the three of them are probably the most kind Christian people in the world. I just don't believe that they're going to hell because they happen to love someone who is the same sex as them.
Jackie: My daughter's gay.
Kathlen: Uh huh.
Jackie: My daughter has a wife and that's my only granddaughter that's two years old. I have the gay pride, trans pride flag flying in my office. Could you briefly describe in your own words your personal political values?
Kathleen: Oh, I am liberal, liberal Democrat, maybe a little bit to the left of moderate. And you?
Jackie: I lean liberal. I'm one of those people who doesn't do the straight ticket when I vote. I really look at the person and what their values are and how I think they'll represent me as opposed to only voting for whoever has a D by their name.
Kathleen: I'm very similar to that. I've always been interested in why do people think the way that they do? I remember when I was in one of the electives that I took was a philosophy class. And I just love that because I got a chance to listen to what, how did other people's values and ideas get shaped? I do have another question for you that I was wondering about. Was there any one thing that influenced your political viewpoints?
Jackie: My grandmother, Olive Miller, tiny, tiny Irish woman. Four foot something, a Methodist and very, very, very into the church for the purpose of giving. And if you have the ability to give, then you need to give, whether it's welcoming strangers into your home to feed, making a hundred pies to sell at the county fair to clothe the kids in the community. I mean, just anything that's our duty. And our duty is to be that way. As an adult that's what formed me. I was conservative at age 18 because I was raised in a very conservative household. My dad was really, really conservative. I think once I got out of the house and got to decide my own decisions, I realized that it's a much more natural feeling to give and be kind and to make the world better any way you can. Serve on committees and serve as coaches and all those kinds of things, because if you can give, you should. So, I think that's where the political, the liberal side comes from. It's just giving, not that conservatives don't give, but it's a different kind of giving. Do you think media plays a role in shaping politics or people's political views?
Kathleen: Oh, definitely. Yes, I do. I think from what I see of some of the people I know is that they read whatever's on, I'll say Facebook, because that's what I'm on mostly to get political stuff where I see the memes where they're all totally incorrect, but they don't fact check them at all. And so maybe there's one little aspect of the meme that is actually correct. There was just one up, it had a Bible verse, and it didn't even make any sense. So, I looked up the Bible verse and then also fact-checked it and then responded to it. And the person who posted it said, well, I didn't even realize that. And they're very conservative to the right. Back in 2016, I remember somebody that I know really well who posted the horrible thing on Facebook about Hillary Clinton being a pedophile. I didn't say anything on social media to her. I called her up and said, what the hell are you doing posting that kind of nonsense on Facebook for crying out loud? And she goes, well, you know, it's probably true. Did not get a dignified answer from me.
Jackie: I cannot believe you called her and you confronted her.
Kathleen: I've known her since we've been in high school. We live together two different times. So, we're bad mothers to each other's first born. So yes, I can say those things to her and she's still my friend.
Jackie: I think media doesn't have to shape our role of reality only if we let it. Like you said, fact checking.
Kathleen: Yes.
Jackie: And there are a lot of things that I agree with when they pop up. I think media is a weapon and a great source of freedom and it's the balance in between. I think about Israel and Palestine right now. The Palestinians are having a voice for the first time in mass media because people have social media and they're able to be there and post what's really happening rather than what's siphoned through commercial media. So, I think people's political views can be easily bent if they allow them to be, but sometimes in a good way. Kathleen, what's something you'll take with you from this experience?
Kathleen: Oh, boy, lots of things. That listening is important. Listening to other people's views and putting myself in their place of how, how did they get here? And you, Jackie?
Jackie: Well, I feel like I have a new friend in Battle Creek. That's something I think I'm going to take away from this experience and pure joy, I guess. It's been a pleasure getting to know you and the experience makes me want to go out and get by my introvert itself and go make some new friends.
Kathleen: Well, good for you. Yes. That is great. Although I'm not an introvert as you can see.
Jackie: Which I love.