Chris Trebilcock: The FCC is looking at what rules they can do to tighten down anything, either through radio or television, primarily what they can do to control, or at least educate and alert consumers of the use of AI in political advertising. Michigan actually happens to be a leader in this forefront and has passed legislation that requires sponsors of ads that use AI to disclose that as part of their political advertising. And if they don't, there are civil penalties and the potential for criminal penalties for violating that statute. So, the FCC is trying to do it much more broadly across the country. Michigan's at the forefront of those efforts as well. And I think you need to start, as we see on TV and on radio every day, there's more and more political advertising as we creep up to the August primary here in Michigan, and then we'll have the general election. And with voting happening earlier, you're going to see more political advertising happen earlier as well.
Patrick Center: Well, the calendar is short. We only have a few months here. How soon could the FCC act?
Chris Trebilcock: The FCC generally would have to go through a rulemaking notice and comment. I know they're exploring and looking at ways to get that implemented sooner. You could see some emergency rulemaking that could happen, but for folks in Michigan, the law is in place. It is effective. The statute is there that if it's political advertising and you use AI, there has to be a clear disclosure that it contains AI or there's penalties for not doing it. And so with the, the rabid use of AI and, and where I don't think it goes far enough, and I think the FCC and the Michigan legislature, where you struggle with is what do you do on all the social media platforms and the AI where so many people get information and repeat information and take it verbatim, what they get on their TikTok feed or Instagram or Facebook or any other platform they use. And so much of it is just not fact-based. It uses AI. It uses other methods of deception. And it's really just designed to sow discord to our democratic principles.
Patrick Center: That seems to be the area of greatest concern. As you mentioned, social media. Mark Twain once said, a lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes. Once this information gets out there, it's hard to get your arms around it, police it. Isn't that truly the greatest area of concern?
Chris Trebilcock: I truly think it is. And you see so many people will take for fact what they read on somebody else's Facebook page or Instagram page. And I know the Secretary of State has tried to make this a big focus. I think all our local clerks are trying to do a good job and educate voters to make sure that they use trusted sources of information. And look, Facebook and Instagram is not your source of trusted information, unfortunately. You know, I think if you have questions or it seems outlandish or dubious, you know, you've got to go to trusted local election officials to get that information.
Patrick Center: We've already had bots from Russia to China and other actors around the world interfere with elections. We've been through this, we've seen it, but AI adds an extra layer to this issue. How is it possible to even get our arms around it and to police this and in such a short amount of time, and maybe it is educating the public more.
Chris Trebilcock: What makes our country great is freedom of speech and some of the freedoms we have. And unfortunately, in public discourse, you have the freedom to lie and make stuff up. And so, I think it's incumbent of all of us as Americans to dig in and look past that. And truly, I think we're at a point where people need to remember, look, we're a democracy and we have to fight for these freedoms. And the people who are using these things are trying to limit our freedoms, actually, and trying to take down our democracy. And all of us as citizens and Americans dig in. Look for the truth and find it from trusted local election officials typically is where you get that information, other reliable news sources.
Patrick Center: At the state level, we're addressing the over the air broadcasting of AI and the FCC is working toward also regulating some of the over-the-air broadcasting. But in your mind is there a way to address AI generated campaign ads in social media online. Is there a way to do that?
Chris Trebilcock: I think the way to do that is you've got to work with the platforms themselves. I know Facebook since the 2020 election has done some efforts to alert users if a certain post contains AI, or you can turn on certain settings, but that only goes so far. And I think, you know, it's very hard to put the genie back in the bottle with a lot of this stuff. And I think it does come down to a huge public education effort by media, by bipartisan nonprofits from elected officials to make sure that people are getting educated about these things and verifying the sources. I think there's the potential and you see these things spread like wildfire. People believe these things on social media and some of the things that we saw cause problems in 2020 were people jumping to conclusions on half-truths or misinformation that were debunked but it takes a long time to debunk them. And so, I think as much as we can, educating people as we lead up to 2024 is really key.
Patrick Center: Could AI be the solution?
Chris Trebilcock: Certainly, I think obviously, Meta or Facebook uses some sort of technology and AI to detect those things. And I think, you know, AI could be programmed to help detect those things. And so, it's, again, it's, you know, there's more to it as well as I think some of this really comes down to the fundamental place we are in American politics, which is, you know, we've got a lot of people that just don't trust any information that they don't agree with. And you know, that's tough to combat, whether it's AI or any other misinformation or lie that is spread. And I think the only way to combat that is through education, repeated education and ambassadors who can push back on those things and do it credibly.
Patrick Center: Do people want to be educated if they have one point of view or one candidate they like or one philosophy? Is it difficult to get people to want to see things in another light or in a different way?
Chris Trebilcock: I think it is and there's some folks obviously that you're just never going to convince no matter what you do. I mean, we saw, you know, a Republican led effort in Michigan by Senator Ed McBroom did a very thorough report of all the myths and the mistruths about what occurred in the 2020 election. Put out a very thorough report. debunking each and every one of them. And yet you go to town halls today or you talk to some people and they still repeat them and they don't believe them. And, you know, look, you know, Senator McBroom is a staunch conservative Republican. And had there been any evidence or truth to any of those things, he would have been the first guy to raise his hand. And, and he did a thorough job of saying, no, those things aren't there. And that's where I go. You've got to go to your local elected officials. You talk to most people, they trust their local elected officials in their community. There's a distrust from people about people who live differently, think differently, and maybe vote differently that somehow, they're manipulated in the system. But Michigan, our systems are safe. They're unified. They're the same systems we use to count, register, count votes, make sure people are qualified and voting in the right place. And our local elected officials, by and large, do a terrific job and are well-trained. And if people have questions about it, I think pick up the phone or go down to your local clerk's office and ask your questions. They're happy to answer them. But my advice, and I've said this before, is to combat AI, the best thing I'd say is just get off social media, put your phone down, talk to your friends and neighbors, and read trusted news sources or listen to trusted news sources who tell it to you straight and reflect both sides. And that's the best advice is I would say put your damn phone down.