Tom Jennings: The history stretches back to two accidents in 2018 and 2019. These were, you'll remember, the 737 Max 8 aircraft type flown by Lion Air in Indonesia and Ethiopian Airlines. And those two crashes were just five months apart, and a total of 342 people lost their lives in those two crashes. As it turned out, it was completely related to this one software system in the cockpit called the MCAS system (Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System), which was designed to help pilots push the nose down and avoid a stall. But it was inappropriately designed and activated without the pilot's knowledge. And that resulted in all those deaths. And that's what the original film, Boeing's Fatal Flaw was about. And that was a partnership with the New York Times. And we worked with four different New York Times reporters and then did our own reporting and production and wrapped it up into a bow and that became that film.
Patrick Center: And we have Boeing in the public eye with the 737 and this issue with the software. And now we have issues with manufacturing and bolts again with the Boeing 737.
Tom Jennings: Exactly. So, this is a different iteration of the Max. This is the 737 Max 9, a slightly different configuration, but basically the same airplane. These are two different types of incidents. The MCAS was a design flaw. And the door plug is a production flaw. And that's a signal difference, but they're joined together by a seemingly compromised safety culture at Boeing, an oversight culture that has been compromised in some way.
Patrick Center: Where does this come from? We have new leadership. So, is this a continuation of that culture? What do you see or what has your investigation revealed?
Tom Jennings: What we see is that after the crashes and after the MCAS debacle, Boeing paid a $2.5 billion fine. And that's a fairly small amount of money for Boeing, really. And $250 million of that about was a criminal fine. And the rest of it was given over to the airlines and families. But that also was supposed to include a complete up and down overhaul of the safety oversight systems at Boeing. And what some people are saying now is that process really didn't take hold in a firm way. That this culture of putting out airplanes in a fairly quick manner and getting back to profitability, which Boeing hasn't seen for years now, was still topmost in mind for the executives. And that resulted potentially, some people are saying, in people on the production floor not adhering to safety standards. And in this case, it was just four simple bolts that were not put back into a door in a manufacturing line process. And what Boeing has subsequently said, very recently actually, just last week, is that they now admit that there's no paperwork of this procedure even being done. So, there's a real problem with quality assurance, quality control. There doesn't seem to be a robust quality assurance process in play at Boeing all these years after MCAS and the tragedy that was.
Patrick Center: How damaging when you have the public who takes Boeing and air safety for granted. That has gone away. So, what happens now with Boeing?
Tom Jennings: What's so interesting about Boeing is that at the end of 2023, they seem to be coming out from the shadow of the MCAS tragedies. People were not thinking of the 737 Max. They were not thinking about thinking of what airplane that they're going to get on. before they made a reservation. What the door plug incident has done is completely thrown the back to square one in this rehabilitation process. It's a real gut punch to Boeing. And for people, you can just talk to anybody, your listeners. People are thinking now when they make reservations, this is something that just hasn't been happening up to this point, people are thinking about what airplane, what aircraft type am I going to be flying on? And even now places like kayak.com offer you that as a filter, choose your airplane, your aircraft type before you get on before you make your reservation. That just didn't happen before. And this is totally related to these two incidents. So, the door plug incident has really thrown Boeing back into a state of crisis.
Patrick Center: How much of the market space does the 737 occupy? Do frequent flyers have that option to choose their aircraft?
Tom Jennings: It depends on the airline that you're flying. The two most prominent carriers in the U.S. that use the Max are Alaska Airlines and United Airlines. American Airlines does as well. There are choices to be had, and not all those airlines fly strictly Boeing. They also do fly Airbus. So, there are choices that you can have, but oftentimes we are stuck. You know, you have to get back home, you know, to see your grandmothers to visit her at any given moment and you're just stuck with the airplane that's flying. So, I think the question is, you know, how much are people now willing to really factor in that piece of information in terms of how they make their plans? And just the fact that we're asking that now, that that's kind of in people's minds, is a real significant issue for Boeing.
Patrick Center: You've been working on this story for years. Is this a concern that you have?
Tom Jennings: About the kind of airplane I fly?
Patrick Center: Yes.
Tom Jennings: You know, I... I factor lots of things into everything that I do. I personally feel like there's a lot of information that's out there that suggests that flying is a very safe endeavor. You do want to fly over driving, for example. It's much safer. Even on a Max, it's safer to fly. Statistically, it's a very safe plane, really. It could be that Boeing is going through a spate of difficulties. But I'd be disingenuous if I didn't say I think about it. I do find myself, just recently I was flying from Columbia back here to New York where I live. I was on a Max 8 and what I did, I buckled my belt very tightly. It was after the door plug incident and I just made sure that the buckle was belted tightly. So, you know, I think about it, but I'll get on the plane.
Patrick Center: Do you see the need for greater oversight that you can't just rely on the manufacturer?
Tom Jennings: Well, that's the other side of the story is how much the government, the Federal Aviation Administration, the FAA, was giving its own authority of safety oversight to the company itself. In that original film, a square half of that was about how the FAA historically had given that role over to Boeing itself. The safety oversight had been gravitated over, it's called the process of delegation. They delegated their own safety authority to Boeing. That after the Max 8 crashes was reconsidered and they were ordered by Congress to reevaluate that. Turns out they hadn't done a whole lot. And now the door plug incident is again, focusing attention on that delegation process. And I think that there is going to consequentially be a lot more oversight of Boeing.
Patrick Center: What do you want viewers to take away from this film?
Tom Jennings: I think that the film, the first film and this film really shine a light, put a lens on how a very austere company that's known for its identity all around the world as an iconic American company has really fallen in stature. And I think that it has a lot to do with how it has lost sight of the standards that it once had. And it goes back, you know, a lot of people say to 1995, 1996, when they merged with McDonald Douglas and they became more of a shareholder driven company, shareholder price driven company, share price driven company. And that has influenced thinking. And I think that's actually is quite true. And the Max line is an example of how a lot of decisions were made primarily on a, on a cost basis, more than not just a safety and engineering basis. It was a factor, it was at least a factor that became more significant subsequent to the merger. And I think that that's something that we all have to think about is like what happens when, you know, the bottom line and share price becomes the highest standard for a company, especially a company that is responsible for such a significant part of the experience that we have as travelers, as living in America. So, you have to, to really think about. What are we paying for when we cut costs and when we want the cheapest priced alternative? What are the consequences to that? And I think that's what this story is really ultimately about.
Patrick Center: PBS Frontline presents Boeing's Fatal Flaw. It airs tonight at 10 o'clock on WGVU Public Television. Director Tom Jennings, thank you so much for your time.
Tom Jennings: Thank you.