John Richard: We've got a lot of people, you know, with the city of Grand Rapids, MDOT, the county road commission, we're all working together to try to bring attention to the stretch of US-131 that desperately needs a rebuild. So, it's basically from M-11, which of course is 28th Street, all the way to Wealthy and Cherry (Streets). So basically, between I-196 and M-11. So, you've got several closely spaced interchanges. It's old, it was designed in the 1950s, built in the 1960s. So, we want to rebuild and these PEL (Planning and Environmental Linkages) meetings, these public meetings and this PELstudy is bringing attention to this area, talking about funding. We're getting public opinion about what they want, what they don't want. So, we're just gathering as much information as we possibly can. The PEL Study is going to go through the end of the year. The survey is open until the end of the year, and the PEL study should wrap up probably sometime in the spring, this coming spring.
Patrick Center: What kind of feedback are you getting? Are you getting a large turnout? Give me a sense of the interest?
John Richard: We had a daytime meeting, and then we had an evening meeting. Both had really, really good turnouts. Some people want to do away with US-131, like get rid of it altogether and put in light rail and transit. Some want to make US-131 a boulevard. Some want to reroute US-131 because they think it's just a through route, which is not true because if you look at the numbers, there's a dramatic drop off in traffic volume to the north and south of this stretch. So, people are not only going through, but they are, you know, Grand Rapids is a destination for many, many reasons. So, there's a lot of pie in the sky ideas out there. But really, we just want to rip out what's there and rebuild and make it modern, make it safer, and make it better for everybody.
Patrick Center: Give our listeners a sense of the use. What do you compare it to?
John Richard: Well, it's the busiest expressway in all of Michigan outside of Detroit. So, US-131 on that stretch gets about 120,000 vehicles every day. So, it's by far our busiest stretch. We've reconstructed I-96. We've modernized I-196. We're doing work on I-196 in Ottawa County. But it's this stretch that's so, I guess difficult is the word. Challenging. Because you've got the rail yard in place, you've got the Grand River, you've got neighborhoods, you've got all kinds of businesses and property in that area. So, it's a narrow swath to work with, but we can work with it and we can make a lot of improvements. We just need the funding to do so.
Patrick Center: Redirecting traffic most likely not going to happen here because of the volume that's there. So, what is likely to take place? The aggregate used is fantastic. I don't know who poured that concrete, but it has withstood the test of time.
John Richard: Yeah, when the next time you're on US-131 and you slow way down and you have a chance to look out your window, you can see the size of that stone, that aggregate is big and round and it's polished and you don't see that anymore. That's the original pavement. Now there's a stretch of I-196 business loop between Zealand and Holland that has that same, you know, big stone, that big round rock, and you don't see that on new pavement anymore. And it really, it rides, it rides pretty good. In the stretch of US-131, the pavement condition is, you know, the least of many concerns. It's those ramps that are closely spaced together. Those on and off ramps that are too short. The bridges are too narrow. So sometimes those large trucks have issues with the turning radii, especially at Wealthy Street. There are options to keep Wealthy over US-131 or to flip it. So, US-131 goes over wealthy. Some want that to make it a little more pedestrian friendly. So, there's a lot on the table right now. And this is the sound bite that everyone keeps using. So, I'm going to say it again. For my 13 county Grand Region, we get about $100 million a year. And that's for everything. Bridge replacement, rebuilding, winter maintenance, potholes. Everything. Right. $100,000 million bucks a year to fix this stretch of US-131 between M-11 and I-196 is going to cost about $600 million bucks.
Patrick Center: So, where does the funding come from? Is there a special request? How would that work or is this something that gets piecemealed over time?
John Richard: Great question. The ripple effect of the east and the west, not just the to the north and south of US-131. But let's say you take out, you know, replace the Wealthy Street bridge. Then you've got connections to the east and the west of that whole area, right? So, if you say you raise the bridge, now you've got to deal with the grade to the east and the west of the bridge. The ripple effect is pretty extensive of what's going to take place. So, there are federal grants that we can apply for and have been applying for, but our funding gets less and less every year because it's all based on the gas tax. So, with all these electric vehicles and people driving less, we get less and less money every single year, not to mention the inflation. So, we've really taken a dive when it comes to what we need to fix and the money that's coming in. So usually what happens, the Republicans will introduce or propose a sustainable funding increase and then the Democrats shoot it down or vice versa, just like Governor Whitmer proposed an increase in the gas tax that was shot down by the Republicans. So, then she comes up with this bonding program, the Rebuilding Michigan program, which is great, but you know, again, it's a supplemental funding shot in the arm that's not sustainable. So, we really need sustainable funding. I don't know if that's going to be a mileage base. tax effort, which of course will take an act of legislation or what they're going to do. But something's got to be done because everybody needs transportation. And of course, everybody wants modern transportation just because it's so much more effective, efficient, and safe.
Patrick Center: So, one thing is certain and that is Wealthy Street. You're still getting all this feedback from the public. But one thing is certain is that Wealthy Street, one of two things needs to happen. And you laid that out earlier. So that is going to happen. And there are some dollars in place currently to make that happen.
John Richard: Correct. Yeah, for Wealthy, there's $10 million set aside specifically for Wealthy. But again, with that butterfly effect, we can't just replace the Wealthy Street bridge and not do other things. We want to make this as short of a project as possible. So, we don't want to spread it out over many years because really miles wise, it's not that long of a stretch between 28th Street and I-196, what is it, four miles? So, I don't know if there's going to be a supplemental funding package specifically for this project, like the I-75 modernization project on the east side of the state. But something's got to be done. It has to be done because when US-131 is flowing well, it's great. You can go straight through to the north. There's easy on and easy access off to get to downtown Grand Rapids. So, I mean, the whole town has grown up around US-131. And I think US-131 itself has a lot to do with the success of Grand Rapids growing because it was efficient. It's not nearly as efficient as it was just because of the high traffic volumes.
Patrick Center: And the ramps are just out of date. The design doesn't work anymore.
John Richard: Yeah, a great example is the on-ramp from Burton to Southbound US-131. Once you get past that curve to that straightaway to accelerate, you don't have a whole lot of space to accelerate and merge in with traffic. So, and the reason why that ramp is so short, you know, obviously it was designed in the 50s and it's built in the 60s, but that bridge over Plaster Creek needs to be widened. So, you can't lengthen the ramp until that bridge is knocked out. So, there's another example of a ripple effect of doing one thing and affecting another. The northbound off ramp to Wealthy is on the left side of the expressway. That's unusual. If we built that today, all the ramps would be on the right side, right? Just for consistency. Drivers are more familiar with it. The left lane is the fast lane. So, it's not good having those exits and ramps on the left side when people are so used to having them on the right, you know, especially when the right side is the slower moving traffic.
Patrick Center: Are we looking at widening any portions? Possibly. We definitely want to widen the shoulders just to have more room for traffic management, maintenance management, especially if there's an incident, wider shoulders are more effective. But yeah, we don't necessarily have to add a thru lane, but it would be really beneficial to have those interchange connection lanes where you can just get on from one interchange, stay on that lane. You don't have to merge into through traffic and then you can get off at the other interchange if you just want to kind of interchange hop if you're not going. So those are really effective and make things a lot safer as well. So, you don't necessarily have to add through lanes. That is on the table. We could. A lot of people don't want that because they think it's going to create more traffic. If you build it, they will come type of thing. I think that takes time because if you have an additional through lane, will that induce growth? Maybe. It might make it more attractive to businesses who want more customers at your place. But there's debate. If you build it, they will come. So, if you add an additional lane, will that create more traffic? I don't know, I'm not a traffic planner, but it will definitely help with congestion.
Patrick Center: To be a part of this survey for anybody who's interested in participating, where do they go?
John Richard: You can go to our website, Michigan.gov/mdot. You can type in US-131 PEL Study. You can type in US-131 PEL Survey. The survey is on the website. It only takes a few minutes to fill out and it's open until the end of the year. So, the public is providing great feedback with the public meetings and the survey itself. So MDOT folks are very accessible and we appreciate the data that the public is providing.
Patrick Center: John Richard, MDOT Communications, Grand Region. Thank you so much.
John Richard: Thanks, Patrick. Always a pleasure.